Why was the Met so snobbish?

..
> > Please think before eructating.
>
I do not have to think..I just look at my pornos..and i eructate very
well.......

What does that word mean anyway...it sounds obscene.......
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

On 9 Jul, 15:51, "gerberk" <gerb....DeleteThis@live.nl> wrote:
> I dont even know most of these names and neither do most of you
>
>YOUR LOSS
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

> LOVELY INTELLIGENT RESPECTFUL RESPONSE TO MY OPERA POST....IS THAT NOT WHY KASIMER BELONGS ONLY ONLY HERE.......SAD..SAD....
>


Somebody at the Met may not have liked the singers that you mention,
> but it had little or nothing to do with their nationality or elitism.
>
> Please think before eructating.
>
> Bill



bY THE WAY....hAVE YOU ERUCTATED LATELY...OR IS IT TOO SOFT????
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

On Jul 9, 6:56 pm, "REG" <Richer....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> [VOMIT OF THE KEYBOARDS]>
> - Show quoted text -

Lord. Another 5000 word essay by the fragile, delicate REGina...

La Jones
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

[Unlisted]
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

Hmmm....why you can't see the snobbism and elitism that pervaded the MET for
many years?

Rudolf Bing, who may qualify as a person of importance at the MET, wrote in
his first autobiography that he had to forego offering Caballe the Three
Queens (which of course he wouldn't have done anyway) because, "Beverly
Sills of the City Opera, having been born in Brooklyn, was entitled to
priority in the portrayal of British royalty." Bing goes on and on in the
volume about his negative feelings about City Opera, as I'm sure you
remember.

Sill herself in her first autobiography, returned the favor, writing, "Mr.
Bing had a thing about American singers, especially those who had not been
trained abroad: he did not think very much of them as singers or of their
ability to 'draw' in his opera house. He made exceptions, of course, but ony
when he was in desparate need of a particular voice, usually a tenor or
baritone. One is never desperately in need of sopranos!" And later on, "In
an odd way, Mr. Bing made my career by keeping me out of the Met so long.
Nothing infuriates the American public quite as much as the notion of a
haughty, foreign-born aristrocrat (sic) being mean to one of its native-born
girls for some personal reason." I'm sure Miss Sills had an axe to grind,
but not one as obvious as yours.

Post-Bing, the MET struggled with Joan Ingpen. She's been written about
extensively in many publications and here on this group and others, and I'm
sure you're as familiar with those references as with the Bing
autobiography. She actually seemed to live by the mocking words of the
Baronet, to the effect that she hired fourth-rate (in her case) foreign
singers when there were perfectly good second-rate singers here at home. Her
years at the MET were, in my opinion, a low-point in many ways in the second
half of the last century for the house.

I don't think that the specifics of Charlie's list are as important - Norman
T was already scheduled for the MET, I think, when he kicked the bucket, and
some of the others are questionable, perhaps, but the general trend is
clear, and Bing, and the MET for years thereafter, certainly delayed the
debut of many City Opera singers as late as possible.

I am curious what 'foreign talent' the MET might have hired to replace the
list of singers you put below - many of which, of course, predated Bing, and
a number of which were booted out by him at the first opportunity. I think
if you put the Bing singers in order like this

Tucker
Peerce
Warren
Merrill
MacNeil
Price
Horne
Ramey

and put next to them the singers who could have replaced them, I could
follow the list better. It is a list, right?




"wkasimer" <wkasimer.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1184008585.624150.91830@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Just because the Met doesn't share your, um, sensibilities, that
> doesn't imply "snobbishness" or any other sort of elitisim.
>
> Over the years, singers like Farrar, Hackett, Tibbett, Tucker, Peerce,
> Warren, Merrill, MacNeil, Price, Horne, and Ramey (just to mention
> names that spring immediately to mind) have done very, very well at
> the Met, during times when the Met could have been hiring foreign
> talent.
>
> Somebody at the Met may not have liked the singers that you mention,
> but it had little or nothing to do with their nationality or elitism.
>
> Please think before eructating.
>
> Bill
>
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

I dont even know most of these names and neither do most of you

Our local genius is good and he knows it
"Elektra" <CharlesHandelman.RemoveThis@cs.com> schreef in bericht
news:1184002086.472198.52220@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> The passing of Beverly Sills recalls to my mind a larger number of
> "City Opera artists" who either never sang at the Met or who appeared
> basically only a little bit there..and it was the Met's great loss to
> forget about AMERICAN artists whogave so many great
> performances..like:
>
> David Poleri
> Chester Ludgin
> Ruth Welting
> Arlene Saunders
> Olivia Stapp
> Carole Bayard
> Norman Treigle
> Frances Bible
>
> and we could name many more......not to denigrate singers whse names
> end in "I" or "ova"...but the Met missed out on so much..trust us
> collectors to tell you what we have heard....Charlie
>
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

On Jul 9, 6:56 pm, "REG" <Richer... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am curious what 'foreign talent' the MET might have hired to replace the
> list of singers you put below - many of which, of course, predated Bing, and
> a number of which were booted out by him at the first opportunity. I think
> if you put the Bing singers in order like this
>
> Tucker
> Peerce
> Warren
> Merrill
> MacNeil
> Price
> Horne
> Ramey
>
> and put next to them the singers who could have replaced them, I could
> follow the list better. It is a list, right?

I know Merrill was suspended by Bing early in his Met career for
starring in the "Aaron Slick" movie. But he was reinstated, and went
on to enjoy a long career at the Met, as did all the others you named.
When I think of someone "booted out" "at the first opportunity" by
Bing, the first name that comes to my mind is Lauritz Melchior.
Best,
Ken
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

On Jul 10, 8:32 am, "REG" <Richer....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for focusing on the content of the post, Ken. Yesterday was quite
> a day for everyone, wasn't it? I enjoy American football, but it never
> occured to me that so many others do too. I suppose it takes a while to get
> into a passing game.

All good, clean fun, IMO, and senza rancor.
>
> Anyway, I think the issues of Merrill and Melchior (and Traubel???) all kind
> of point to the same elitism and snobbism of Bing. I think Bing needed
> Merrill, and had to make the compromise - a lot of it was whether Merrill
> would say "Mother, may I", before he went and did the film, I think.
>
> I actually don't know who the singers below could have been replaced by
> anyone else, which was Sills' point in her first autobiography, and what I
> thought was off about the list of singers was that they would not have been
> easily replaced at their level of vocal excellence, particularly given the
> number of performances that they were willing to commit to the MET.
>
> Best

I don't have any problem with Bing being characterized as a "snob." I
think he was very much an elitist. The problem I have is that a lot
of NYCO performers, many of them Americans, did get their chance to
perform at the Met during Bing's regime.
I do think that with a few exceptions, Bing had a great deal of
trouble tolerating singers he perceived as strong-willed, particularly
those who bucked his authority. But this lack of tolerance
transcended geographic boundaries.
Best,
Ken
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

Thank you for focusing on the content of the post, Ken. Yesterday was quite
a day for everyone, wasn't it? I enjoy American football, but it never
occured to me that so many others do too. I suppose it takes a while to get
into a passing game.

Anyway, I think the issues of Merrill and Melchior (and Traubel???) all kind
of point to the same elitism and snobbism of Bing. I think Bing needed
Merrill, and had to make the compromise - a lot of it was whether Merrill
would say "Mother, may I", before he went and did the film, I think.

I actually don't know who the singers below could have been replaced by
anyone else, which was Sills' point in her first autobiography, and what I
thought was off about the list of singers was that they would not have been
easily replaced at their level of vocal excellence, particularly given the
number of performances that they were willing to commit to the MET.

Best

"Ken Meltzer" <commspkmn.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1184069437.942284.220310@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 9, 6:56 pm, "REG" <Richer....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am curious what 'foreign talent' the MET might have hired to replace
>> the
>> list of singers you put below - many of which, of course, predated Bing,
>> and
>> a number of which were booted out by him at the first opportunity. I
>> think
>> if you put the Bing singers in order like this
>>
>> Tucker
>> Peerce
>> Warren
>> Merrill
>> MacNeil
>> Price
>> Horne
>> Ramey
>>
>> and put next to them the singers who could have replaced them, I could
>> follow the list better. It is a list, right?
>
> I know Merrill was suspended by Bing early in his Met career for
> starring in the "Aaron Slick" movie. But he was reinstated, and went
> on to enjoy a long career at the Met, as did all the others you named.
> When I think of someone "booted out" "at the first opportunity" by
> Bing, the first name that comes to my mind is Lauritz Melchior.
> Best,
> Ken
>
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

"Ken Meltzer" <commspkmn.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1184069437.942284.220310@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 9, 6:56 pm, "REG" <Richer....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am curious what 'foreign talent' the MET might have hired to replace
>> the
>> list of singers you put below - many of which, of course, predated Bing,
>> and
>> a number of which were booted out by him at the first opportunity. I
>> think
>> if you put the Bing singers in order like this
>>
>> Tucker
>> Peerce
>> Warren
>> Merrill
>> MacNeil
>> Price
>> Horne
>> Ramey
>>
>> and put next to them the singers who could have replaced them, I could
>> follow the list better. It is a list, right?
>
> I know Merrill was suspended by Bing early in his Met career for
> starring in the "Aaron Slick" movie. But he was reinstated, and went
> on to enjoy a long career at the Met, as did all the others you named.
> When I think of someone "booted out" "at the first opportunity" by
> Bing, the first name that comes to my mind is Lauritz Melchior.
> Best,
> Ken
>

The Melchior case was particularly regrettable since he was not even allowed
to celebrate his 25th anniversary with the company - Merrill's letter of
apology to Bing was widely publicized and was even reproduced in the
American Record Guide and quite groveling it is. Richard
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

Ken, and I'd add now in thinking, a decade later, Aunt Eileen (no personal
relation - I'm just a Friend of Schippers). He delayed getting her in, gave
her very little, and was eager to get her out before opening the new house.
She was no Sunday walk in the park, but neither were a lot of them - she
was a popular artist with the public, though, and had been for over a
decade, and was a gutsy girl, which was not designed to go down well with
him. I have often wondered if her association with Sills (they were good
friends from way back) played into the Sills issues a bit (including Sills'
dislike of him - she was very loyal).


"REG" <Richergar RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46937c46$0$30655$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Thank you for focusing on the content of the post, Ken. Yesterday was
> quite a day for everyone, wasn't it? I enjoy American football, but it
> never occured to me that so many others do too. I suppose it takes a while
> to get into a passing game.
>
> Anyway, I think the issues of Merrill and Melchior (and Traubel???) all
> kind of point to the same elitism and snobbism of Bing. I think Bing
> needed Merrill, and had to make the compromise - a lot of it was whether
> Merrill would say "Mother, may I", before he went and did the film, I
> think.
>
> I actually don't know who the singers below could have been replaced by
> anyone else, which was Sills' point in her first autobiography, and what I
> thought was off about the list of singers was that they would not have
> been easily replaced at their level of vocal excellence, particularly
> given the number of performances that they were willing to commit to the
> MET.
>
> Best
>
> "Ken Meltzer" <commspkmn RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1184069437.942284.220310@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 9, 6:56 pm, "REG" <Richer... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am curious what 'foreign talent' the MET might have hired to replace
>>> the
>>> list of singers you put below - many of which, of course, predated Bing,
>>> and
>>> a number of which were booted out by him at the first opportunity. I
>>> think
>>> if you put the Bing singers in order like this
>>>
>>> Tucker
>>> Peerce
>>> Warren
>>> Merrill
>>> MacNeil
>>> Price
>>> Horne
>>> Ramey
>>>
>>> and put next to them the singers who could have replaced them, I could
>>> follow the list better. It is a list, right?
>>
>> I know Merrill was suspended by Bing early in his Met career for
>> starring in the "Aaron Slick" movie. But he was reinstated, and went
>> on to enjoy a long career at the Met, as did all the others you named.
>> When I think of someone "booted out" "at the first opportunity" by
>> Bing, the first name that comes to my mind is Lauritz Melchior.
>> Best,
>> Ken
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Why was the Met so snobbish? 

On Jul 10, 8:32 am, "Richard Loeb" <loeb... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:

> The Melchior case was particularly regrettable since he was not even allowed
> to celebrate his 25th anniversary with the company - Merrill's letter of
> apology to Bing was widely publicized and was even reproduced in the
> American Record Guide and quite groveling it is. Richard

Richard:
Do you have a link to the text of that letter?
Thanks.
Best,
Ken
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